joey
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Posts: 36
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Taxes
Dec 3, 2022 17:26:07 GMT
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Post by joey on Dec 3, 2022 17:26:07 GMT
What are your thoughts about them and their legality? Do you pay yours? Why or why not?
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Taxes
Dec 3, 2022 23:04:21 GMT
Post by notabaron on Dec 3, 2022 23:04:21 GMT
in canada it is technically illegal. it was only supposed to be a war measures act, during world war one (!) I didn't pay mine for about ten years and was afraid there would be a penalty. but i got a major return. I have heard of a first hand account of a court case of someone not paying taxes because the are unconstitutional. not sure how it turned out.
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joey
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Posts: 36
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Post by joey on Dec 4, 2022 4:40:28 GMT
in canada it is technically illegal. it was only supposed to be a war measures act, during world war one (!) I didn't pay mine for about ten years and was afraid there would be a penalty. but i got a major return. I have heard of a first hand account of a court case of someone not paying taxes because the are unconstitutional. not sure how it turned out. Well played on the return! Yeah, my buddy got his house raided, yes raided, with guns drawn and everything. They came in and took all his paper documents as well as all his computers. They essentially ransacked the entire place turning it upside down. Later, he ran off to Panama and hired a lawyer. Anyway, he came back around 5 years later so I assume the attorney was well worth it and damn good at his profession. Claims he still doesn't pay taxes... we don't talk much anymore so I haven't really been able to verify any of the later.
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lol
Really good at convincing us he’s not a bot
Posts: 144
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Taxes
Dec 5, 2022 2:48:01 GMT
joey likes this
Post by lol on Dec 5, 2022 2:48:01 GMT
I studied tax law in 1999 and found that the 16th Amendment was not ratified, so federal income taxes are not required. The same with FICA and employment taxes etc. I lately wanted to contact Joe Banister, who used to be an IRS agent who also found that such taxes are not legal. He was fired and then started a business himself, apparently as an accountant. I did a web search for him last week and found the following story about him. PS, I never made enough income to have to file tax returns until 2019. I started working full-time then for 3 years. I went ahead and let my GF's Dad, who's a lawyer, file tax returns for me, because we got refunds, due to low income. Jury Acquits Former IRS Special Agent of Felony Tax Charges www.bernhoftlaw.com/cases/joseph-banister/_Joseph Banister, a former IRS agent and prominent IRS whistleblower, was acquitted on all federal tax fraud and conspiracy charges. _The widely-followed U.S. District Court case stemmed from tax returns that Banister, a certified public accountant, had filed for the owner of a small aviation firm in Lake Shasta, California. The business owner contended he owed no taxes and did not withhold taxes from employees, while claiming a refund for taxes paid in previous years. _Banister had told his clients they didn’t need to file federal income tax returns because the 16th Amendment, which gives Congress “power to lay and collect taxes on incomes,” was never properly ratified. Years before, he had given his bosses at the IRS a 95-page memo detailing his belief before being forced to resign from the agency. _Robert Bernhoft, Banister’s attorney, said his client was acquitted because the government did not prove he intended to defraud. Observers said a crucial moment of the trial occurred when defense attorneys intensely questioned Banister’s former supervisor at IRS, Robert Gorini, and he was unable to cite any U.S. law that required Banister to pay income taxes. _“Brilliant legal work by the law office of Robert Bernhoft was key in Mr. Banister’s acquittal,” noted John Turner, a former IRS agent. “They recognized the complete lack of evidence to support the government’s case and wisely decided that it would add nothing to have witnesses and Banister testify.”
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joey
Bot till proven otherwise
Posts: 36
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Taxes
Dec 5, 2022 20:16:23 GMT
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Post by joey on Dec 5, 2022 20:16:23 GMT
I studied tax law in 1999 and found that the 16th Amendment was not ratified, so federal income taxes are not required. The same with FICA and employment taxes etc. I lately wanted to contact Joe Banister, who used to be an IRS agent who also found that such taxes are not legal. He was fired and then started a business himself, apparently as an accountant. I did a web search for him last week and found the following story about him. PS, I never made enough income to have to file tax returns until 2019. I started working full-time then for 3 years. I went ahead and let my GF's Dad, who's a lawyer, file tax returns for me, because we got refunds, due to low income. Jury Acquits Former IRS Special Agent of Felony Tax Charges www.bernhoftlaw.com/cases/joseph-banister/_Joseph Banister, a former IRS agent and prominent IRS whistleblower, was acquitted on all federal tax fraud and conspiracy charges. _The widely-followed U.S. District Court case stemmed from tax returns that Banister, a certified public accountant, had filed for the owner of a small aviation firm in Lake Shasta, California. The business owner contended he owed no taxes and did not withhold taxes from employees, while claiming a refund for taxes paid in previous years. _Banister had told his clients they didn’t need to file federal income tax returns because the 16th Amendment, which gives Congress “power to lay and collect taxes on incomes,” was never properly ratified. Years before, he had given his bosses at the IRS a 95-page memo detailing his belief before being forced to resign from the agency. _Robert Bernhoft, Banister’s attorney, said his client was acquitted because the government did not prove he intended to defraud. Observers said a crucial moment of the trial occurred when defense attorneys intensely questioned Banister’s former supervisor at IRS, Robert Gorini, and he was unable to cite any U.S. law that required Banister to pay income taxes. _“Brilliant legal work by the law office of Robert Bernhoft was key in Mr. Banister’s acquittal,” noted John Turner, a former IRS agent. “They recognized the complete lack of evidence to support the government’s case and wisely decided that it would add nothing to have witnesses and Banister testify.” So essentially, pay your taxes unless you can afford a lengthy legal battle.
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lol
Really good at convincing us he’s not a bot
Posts: 144
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Post by lol on Dec 6, 2022 21:51:41 GMT
Or don't make enough income to "owe" taxes.
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joey
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Posts: 36
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Taxes
Dec 6, 2022 22:34:16 GMT
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Post by joey on Dec 6, 2022 22:34:16 GMT
Or don't make enough income to "owe" taxes. . Yeah I guess, but how do you do that? Seems suspect no? Or trashy...
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stephen
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Posts: 16
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Taxes
Dec 6, 2022 23:40:03 GMT
ska likes this
Post by stephen on Dec 6, 2022 23:40:03 GMT
Or don't make enough income to "owe" taxes. . Yeah I guess, but how do you do that? Seems suspect no? Or trashy... I've seen documentaries about this done. You have to keep reportable income below a certain threshold while being ultra-minimalist. It's possible for a very select few but generally not realistic.
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stephen
Bot till proven otherwise
Posts: 16
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Taxes
Dec 6, 2022 23:45:13 GMT
ska likes this
Post by stephen on Dec 6, 2022 23:45:13 GMT
I studied tax law in 1999 and found that the 16th Amendment was not ratified, so federal income taxes are not required. The same with FICA and employment taxes etc. I lately wanted to contact Joe Banister, who used to be an IRS agent who also found that such taxes are not legal. He was fired and then started a business himself, apparently as an accountant. I did a web search for him last week and found the following story about him. PS, I never made enough income to have to file tax returns until 2019. I started working full-time then for 3 years. I went ahead and let my GF's Dad, who's a lawyer, file tax returns for me, because we got refunds, due to low income. Jury Acquits Former IRS Special Agent of Felony Tax Charges www.bernhoftlaw.com/cases/joseph-banister/_Joseph Banister, a former IRS agent and prominent IRS whistleblower, was acquitted on all federal tax fraud and conspiracy charges. _The widely-followed U.S. District Court case stemmed from tax returns that Banister, a certified public accountant, had filed for the owner of a small aviation firm in Lake Shasta, California. The business owner contended he owed no taxes and did not withhold taxes from employees, while claiming a refund for taxes paid in previous years. _Banister had told his clients they didn’t need to file federal income tax returns because the 16th Amendment, which gives Congress “power to lay and collect taxes on incomes,” was never properly ratified. Years before, he had given his bosses at the IRS a 95-page memo detailing his belief before being forced to resign from the agency. _Robert Bernhoft, Banister’s attorney, said his client was acquitted because the government did not prove he intended to defraud. Observers said a crucial moment of the trial occurred when defense attorneys intensely questioned Banister’s former supervisor at IRS, Robert Gorini, and he was unable to cite any U.S. law that required Banister to pay income taxes. _“Brilliant legal work by the law office of Robert Bernhoft was key in Mr. Banister’s acquittal,” noted John Turner, a former IRS agent. “They recognized the complete lack of evidence to support the government’s case and wisely decided that it would add nothing to have witnesses and Banister testify.” So essentially, pay your taxes unless you can afford a lengthy legal battle. Pretty much. Nowadays I think they were actors on stage to demoralize anyone from dissenting but tax protestors like Irwin Schiff and Wesley Snipes pushed it to the limit and failed. There was that one case in "America: Freedom to Fascism" where jury nullification prevailed and that is probably the ideal goal but like any effective political action, requires people to get off their duffs and do something about it. Repealing the 16th amendment might solve this but US federal income tax revenue doesn't even service the government debt much less pay for anything. It's a control mechanism. Similarly, the SEC is there to keep the rubes in check and any would-be Martha Stewarts but billion dollar fines for rigging the precious metals markets is just the cost of doing business for the global investment banks.
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Post by dentarthurdent on Dec 7, 2022 1:16:19 GMT
With infinite deficit spending and qualitative easing, taxes are an antiquated concept. Why bother? Because taxes are about controlling people, not revenue generation.
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