Post by Gerry on Jun 7, 2023 13:24:11 GMT
On CTTF, a fellow commenter posted a link to a website claiming that Jewish scripture says that "non-Jews are animals" that may be "killed by Jews" at whim. Since I spent some time with the Talmud, I wrote that I think that stuff is just made up. His answer was that he found multiple such claims on the internet, and no specific debunking, so it must be true so he didn't think it was made up.
I couldn't post a longer answer as they all got auto-censored, as were those of other people. So I'll post my personal debunking here, just of the first claim.
The first claim on that website is that Babylonian Talmud tractate Bava Metzia 114b says that "non-Jews are not humans, they are beasts":
I thought that was simply made-up, but apparently, it's just ripped out of context, mistranslated, and then again interpreted & rephrased in a very offensive way. The original Hebrew phrase is a Talmudic citation from the Old Testament, Ezekiel 34:31, with God saying: "You, my flock, flock of my pasture, are men". This verse is then reinterpreted in Bava Metzia 114b.2 as: "You are called men, but the star-worshipers are not called men". Hebrew text & English translations can be found here, with Hebrew "star-worshipers" translated as "gentiles":
Obviously, neither the Ezekiel nor the Bava Metzia phrase are anything to be proud of. Both feel intolerant & racist, and the Talmud version is even worse. But there's a huge problem with the translations: The original Hebrew phrase differentiates between the "flock of God" and "star-worshipers". Christian truthers would count themselves among the "flock of God", and definitely not among the "star-worshipers", which are likely meant as pagan religions that worship gods as planets, like Jupiter, Mars & Venus. But confusingly for Jews & Christians, the original phrase "star-worshipers" is typically translated as "non-Jews" or "gentiles", which includes Christians. I sense spookwork in those translations already, seeking to pit common Jews & Christians against each other. The cited website has then taken the already faulty translation, and one-upped it again: To offend Christians explicitly, they added the slur that "non-Jews are beasts", which is found nowhere in the original text. That's spook bait for Christian truthers, to make them look stupid & racist whenever they fling that claim around. It's also to have us barking up the wrong tree: We'll think it's all about "ze Jews" & "religion", and that Christianity will save us. In truth, spookery is about top-level rulership & corruption, and it can come in the guise of any religion, even Christianity.
That this racist claim is not the truth about the Talmud should also be clear if you consider the context. Because the context of any Talmud tractate is that the literal text is impractical at best, but typically it's total nonsense. I think there's nothing wrong with Jewish religion like it's practiced in everyday life. But if anyone claims to have truly understood the "wisdom" inside the literal text of the Talmud, then he's lying. The truth is that most ancient texts are encrypted, and the Talmud is the most obvious example that the literal meaning of ancient texts is often simply gibberish, encrypting something else.
The context of that Bava Metzia verse 114b already reads like a joke:
One rabbi sees another rabbi standing in a "graveyard of star-worshipers". He asks him when "arrangements" should be made for a debtor. The other guy says "when he's poor". Then they ask whether a "naked" guy in a "graveyard of star-worshipers" isn't impure. Even though no one is naked in the story. They then ask why that master rabbi as a priest was standing around in a graveyard in the first place. Good question. And in answer they cite a third rabbi, who said that in Ezekiel 34:31, God says his own flock are the "men", so he interprets this as "star-worshipers" not being called "men". So their graveyard's no problem. Then they discuss how many tractates you should learn, and that one rabbi carried leaves from Eden in his robe, and could then sell it for a fortune. Then they talk about debt, loans & collateral again. Then about whether you need night garments during the day. And so on. "Star-worshipers" & "men" are never mentioned again. And the words "Jews" & "non-Jews" are never used at all.
If you've lost track of what the text is actually about, then you're not alone. It's obviously gibberish. I think the man reason why these texts are not made more readily available is that they're embarrassing. And they'd immediately debunk the claim that those rich & powerful "Jews" became rich & powerful because "Jews are smart & learned people". Instead, skeptics like me might ask why this nonsensical gibberish was kept & treasured for millennia, and why it was never rewritten & improved. And we might try & analyze the text, and come to the conclusion that it's an encryption.
I'm no Hebrew speaker, and it takes me months & years to decrypt these texts. But I can already see some possible clues in the Bava Metzia text, that this is again about rulers & subjects:
Some of these first guesses may prove to be false, but to know that I'd have to decrypt more verses before & after. On my website, you can already see some multi-verse decryptions of the Talmud tractates Peah & Berakhot. I think you'll agree that the decrypted text is much more coherent than the literal text, and that the gibberish then turns into a real meaning, only a pretty evil one, about how rulers deceive their subjects.
To get there, I had to check every work in the original texts, and then match those against 1000s of dictionary entries. I made it all available with direct links. It's really somewhat frustrating that nearly no one reads that, and that even truthers would rather believe unfounded claims from spooky sites, as long as its fits their preconceptions.
I hope this helps with the "Truth About the Talmud". If you got any questions or objections, please fire away. 😉
I couldn't post a longer answer as they all got auto-censored, as were those of other people. So I'll post my personal debunking here, just of the first claim.
The first claim on that website is that Babylonian Talmud tractate Bava Metzia 114b says that "non-Jews are not humans, they are beasts":
"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
I thought that was simply made-up, but apparently, it's just ripped out of context, mistranslated, and then again interpreted & rephrased in a very offensive way. The original Hebrew phrase is a Talmudic citation from the Old Testament, Ezekiel 34:31, with God saying: "You, my flock, flock of my pasture, are men". This verse is then reinterpreted in Bava Metzia 114b.2 as: "You are called men, but the star-worshipers are not called men". Hebrew text & English translations can be found here, with Hebrew "star-worshipers" translated as "gentiles":
- www.sefaria.org/Bava_Metzia.114b.2?lang=bi
- www.chabad.org/torah-texts/5456290/The-Talmud/Bava-Metzia/Chapter-9/Daf-114b
- halakhah.com/babamezia/babamezia_114.html#114b
אתם קרויין אדם ואין עובדי כוכבים קרויין אדם
ˀtm qrwyyn ˀdm wˀyn ˁwbdy kwkbym qrwyyn ˀdm
you are-called men but-not worshipers of-stars are-called men
— Bava Metzia 114b.2
ˀtm qrwyyn ˀdm wˀyn ˁwbdy kwkbym qrwyyn ˀdm
you are-called men but-not worshipers of-stars are-called men
— Bava Metzia 114b.2
Obviously, neither the Ezekiel nor the Bava Metzia phrase are anything to be proud of. Both feel intolerant & racist, and the Talmud version is even worse. But there's a huge problem with the translations: The original Hebrew phrase differentiates between the "flock of God" and "star-worshipers". Christian truthers would count themselves among the "flock of God", and definitely not among the "star-worshipers", which are likely meant as pagan religions that worship gods as planets, like Jupiter, Mars & Venus. But confusingly for Jews & Christians, the original phrase "star-worshipers" is typically translated as "non-Jews" or "gentiles", which includes Christians. I sense spookwork in those translations already, seeking to pit common Jews & Christians against each other. The cited website has then taken the already faulty translation, and one-upped it again: To offend Christians explicitly, they added the slur that "non-Jews are beasts", which is found nowhere in the original text. That's spook bait for Christian truthers, to make them look stupid & racist whenever they fling that claim around. It's also to have us barking up the wrong tree: We'll think it's all about "ze Jews" & "religion", and that Christianity will save us. In truth, spookery is about top-level rulership & corruption, and it can come in the guise of any religion, even Christianity.
That this racist claim is not the truth about the Talmud should also be clear if you consider the context. Because the context of any Talmud tractate is that the literal text is impractical at best, but typically it's total nonsense. I think there's nothing wrong with Jewish religion like it's practiced in everyday life. But if anyone claims to have truly understood the "wisdom" inside the literal text of the Talmud, then he's lying. The truth is that most ancient texts are encrypted, and the Talmud is the most obvious example that the literal meaning of ancient texts is often simply gibberish, encrypting something else.
The context of that Bava Metzia verse 114b already reads like a joke:
One rabbi sees another rabbi standing in a "graveyard of star-worshipers". He asks him when "arrangements" should be made for a debtor. The other guy says "when he's poor". Then they ask whether a "naked" guy in a "graveyard of star-worshipers" isn't impure. Even though no one is naked in the story. They then ask why that master rabbi as a priest was standing around in a graveyard in the first place. Good question. And in answer they cite a third rabbi, who said that in Ezekiel 34:31, God says his own flock are the "men", so he interprets this as "star-worshipers" not being called "men". So their graveyard's no problem. Then they discuss how many tractates you should learn, and that one rabbi carried leaves from Eden in his robe, and could then sell it for a fortune. Then they talk about debt, loans & collateral again. Then about whether you need night garments during the day. And so on. "Star-worshipers" & "men" are never mentioned again. And the words "Jews" & "non-Jews" are never used at all.
If you've lost track of what the text is actually about, then you're not alone. It's obviously gibberish. I think the man reason why these texts are not made more readily available is that they're embarrassing. And they'd immediately debunk the claim that those rich & powerful "Jews" became rich & powerful because "Jews are smart & learned people". Instead, skeptics like me might ask why this nonsensical gibberish was kept & treasured for millennia, and why it was never rewritten & improved. And we might try & analyze the text, and come to the conclusion that it's an encryption.
I'm no Hebrew speaker, and it takes me months & years to decrypt these texts. But I can already see some possible clues in the Bava Metzia text, that this is again about rulers & subjects:
- rby "rabbi" puns with rb "nobleman".
- mr "master" also means "lord".
- khn "priest" also means "ruler".
- ṣˀn "flocks" is often used to mean "subjects".
- ˀdm "men" puns with dmˀ "appearance" & dmy "disguise".
- qbr "grave" puns with kpr "cover".
- kswt "garment" also means "cover".
- gn-ˁdn "garden Eden" puns with gnˀ-ˁdn "hidden luxury".
- ˁrm "naked" can also mean "revealed".
- ˁbdy-kwkbym "star-worshipers" puns loosely with ˁbdy-kppym "subdued subjects".
Some of these first guesses may prove to be false, but to know that I'd have to decrypt more verses before & after. On my website, you can already see some multi-verse decryptions of the Talmud tractates Peah & Berakhot. I think you'll agree that the decrypted text is much more coherent than the literal text, and that the gibberish then turns into a real meaning, only a pretty evil one, about how rulers deceive their subjects.
To get there, I had to check every work in the original texts, and then match those against 1000s of dictionary entries. I made it all available with direct links. It's really somewhat frustrating that nearly no one reads that, and that even truthers would rather believe unfounded claims from spooky sites, as long as its fits their preconceptions.
I hope this helps with the "Truth About the Talmud". If you got any questions or objections, please fire away. 😉
