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Post by lol on Feb 10, 2024 22:41:25 GMT
Hello again, at least Daniel and Michael. (I mean that's all I see here. Is anyone else here?) I copied part of Miles' paper on Terrain Theory Psyop on Dec. 15 at covidandvaxfaqs.substack.com/p/terrain-theory-psyop and Michael commented there and we then discussed getting more scientific and spreading the word at my other forum that's hardly been used at all at mileswmathis.webboard.org/discuss-spreading-the-word-about-miles-ideas-and-discuss-scientifically-proving-conspiracy-and-historical-facts-t4.html . He didn't like that forum, due to nobody else being there, and suggested I come back here, so now I'm here. I talked about Sociocracy a little in these Substack posts (ILKI means Important Little-Known Info): SOCIOCRACY FOR EQUALITY FOR ALL ilki.substack.com/p/sociocracy-for-equality-for-allSOCIOCRACY FOR ALL - VIDEOS ilki.substack.com/p/sociocracy-for-all-videosKEEP PSYCHOPATHS OUT OF POWER ilki.substack.com/p/keep-psychopaths-out-of-powerMichael said the ruling class (as I call them) has everything under their control basically, so he seemed pessimistic that a better scientific method like Sociocracy could work to end corruption, but I fairly obviously disagree. Miles and his fans have talked about corruption a lot and exposed some of it pretty well, but they mostly seem to want to just be optimistic that people will wake up and stop supporting the system that the ruling class has set up. They seem to be mostly disinterested in trying to collaborate much to try to change the system, other than by writing more papers exposing the fraud and abuse. But I think Sociocracy provides a great opportunity for the common people to organize effectively to end major corruption once and for all. So I want to invite everyone opposed to corruption to discuss and get involved in collaboration, which I'll try to write about here soon. |
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lol
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Post by lol on Feb 11, 2024 0:01:55 GMT
SOME IDEAS
1. Reform Science with Sociocracy
2. Start a New Political Party with Sociocracy
3. Promote Home Schooling & Self-Directed Education with Sociocracy
4. Start an Alternative to Wikipedia on Science & History using Sociocracy
5. Promote Holistic Collaborative Communities with Businesses using Sociocracy
1. We all know how corrupt Science & Medicine are. I think Sociocracy is the next logical step for improving Scientific Method and Science.
2. I've been mildly promoting RFK Jr for President, because he seems to be sincere in wanting to end major corruption, as his organization, Children's Health Defense, strongly indicates. I don't suggest trusting him or anyone, but I think the organization working with him could be very productive, if it can be persuaded to try Sociocracy. He switched from running as a Democrat to running as an Independent. A friend near St. Louis suggested that we start a new political party and that makes a lot of sense to me. I suggested having it adopt Sociocracy, which is similar to Occupy Wall Street's method of consensus decision making, but way more sophisticated. I'm presently pre-occupied with helping my GF's legal problem, but after next Tuesday, I hope to be free to do more interesting things.
3. I've long favored and promoted better education, though likely without having any significant impact. I want to start promoting Sociocracy to make alternative education much more popular and effective. All these kids coming out of alternative Ed. should be able to have a major impact on society if they can get together and collaborate well.
4. An Alternative Science & History Wiki using Sociocracy could help supplant mainstream crap. When enough people realize the "emperor" is wearing no clothes, that crap should come crashing down to the sewer where it belongs. I figure that Sociocratic Scientific Method can clean up Science & History online and greatly help humanity wake up and clean house.
5. I was in New Hampshire from 2009 to 2012 to help work on the Free State Project (FSP) there, where libertarians have been seeking to organize to make their presence known to a whole state. They've been fairly successful getting libertarians elected to state and local offices in both major political parties, instead of in the Libertarian Party. Some of the FSP members and friends also favored starting free towns via a Free Town Project. I don't know if that got anywhere, but I was writing a lot about it on the FSP forum for several years and came up with a bunch of ideas for free towns and free counties. There's also an Intentional Communities movement at ic.org which has rather compatible aims IMO. And I'd like to see Sociocracy used to make those movements much stronger. A number of IC's already use Sociocracy or at least consensus. They're mostly brainwashed with Climate Change propaganda, but Sociocratic Science should help dispel them of their naivete' IMO.
So those are some of my main interests for Reforming Society. If you guys share what ideas you have about Ending Major Corruption, maybe we can find more effective ways to collaborate and help get this Reform Movement seriously under way. Eh?
If we need a transition to get from here to somewhere there, maybe it could be by starting with one or more sections of this forum. Like, we could have a goal of getting a certain number of new members and of organizing a central team or circle of 6 to 8 people to make some decisions about the forum and about spreading our influence farther out. I have a bunch of Substacks where I can help somewhat. I'm also on a couple science forums.
What do you guys say?
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 11, 2024 11:57:51 GMT
lol Nice to have you back here, I do like this format. Can I humbly suggest a couple of pointers before I get into the meat of the "sociocracy" issue - that since now you are back here we (and anyone else) can have at. It would help me if the discussion issues were shorter and more to the point. I will have to do a lot of reading on sociocracy to develop a position and I guess I am not the only ones that struggle with the time to respond to very long post. I get that there is an actual question at the end there, but I suspect most people will not answer it. TO me it feels like a speech with a question stuck on to make it sound like a discussion. Let me try to pull out some questions from it for the board. P.S. and an aside, I hope your GF is successful in her legal issues, so good luck for that - I suspect there maybe some interesting views on the veracity of the court process, if you want them or want to make them. I am tempted to say C U Next Tuesday, but that would be a bit base. Oops, there is my sense of humour again, enough to get me banned from the cult board.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 11, 2024 12:36:04 GMT
So here are some (full disclosure co-pilot helped with these, I am trying to keep feeding alternatives into their systems, but they are a bit resistant). - What are the basic principles and methods of Sociocracy?
- How likely / what evidence is there that the ruling class have control or alternatively will be able to be driven around by using these methods?
- How do you feel about collaborating with others who share your goal of ending corruption and what are some ways to foster trust and cooperation?
- You state that a new Wikipedia should be started, but is it not the case that Wikipedia is a good example of how the ruling class control through Sociocracy? Aren't should's are one of the things the ruling class rely on to entice the naive?
- or, from co-pilot: What are the criteria and standards that you would use to evaluate the quality and reliability of scientific and historical information? How would sociocracy help create and maintain an alternative wiki that is more accurate and comprehensive than the mainstream sources?
- Anyone got any views on RFK for leader of the unfree world?
- What are the values and goals that you share with the Free State Project and the Intentional Communities movement? (co-pilot)
- How would sociocracy help you organize and facilitate your forum activities and decisions? (co-pilot)
- a central team or circle of 6 to 8 people to make some decisions about the forum and about spreading our influence farther out. I have a bunch of Substacks where I can help somewhat. I'm also on a couple science forums. @daniel how do you feel about this, after all it is your forum?
Of course, anyone can weigh in on these or anything else, I am just trying to bring some structure to aid the discussion.
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Post by lol on Feb 11, 2024 18:13:19 GMT
Thanks for the comments, Michael. Re: 1. What are the basic principles and methods of Sociocracy? Here's a brief description from this post: ilki.substack.com/p/sociocracy-for-equality-for-all""Sociocracy for All {SoFA} is for everything that supports our capacity and freedom to engage as equals in meeting our individual and collective needs. We aim to bring sociocracy to the world because sociocracy establishes "power with" and creates the conditions where "power within" can flourish. This is in contrast to governance based on "power over", such as tyranny of the majority by win-lose democracy or tyranny of the minority by poorly defined consensus processes. Sociocracy is an approach to governance where everyone’s voice matters."" That doesn't mention conventional tyranny by oligarchs, but maybe it makes sense for SoFA not to mention the ruling class, because we don't need to announce to the latter that we intend to reduce their power. Occupy Wall Street is said to have been organized by "anarchists" who tried to use "consensus" decision making, aka unanimous rule, in their movement. Many others, such as Intentional Communities etc, have tried consensus and found some problems with it. I think the main problem is that, if everyone has to agree in order to make a decision, then just one or a small number of people can prevent decisions. So Sociocracy solved that problem by requiring that anyone who has a reasoned objection to a proposal explains their reason/s and then anyone can modify the proposal to try to satisfy objections. From some videos it looks like some Sociocracy groups use hand signals to show either "agree", "objection", or "no objection". So a proposal can go forward if there are no objections. They recommend not having meetings too often and keeping groups small, 6 to 8 people, and dividing large groups into smaller ones and linking groups, which they call circles, by having 2 members of each small group be members of 2 different groups. They also recommend having a brief period at the end of each meeting to suggest possible improvements to the meetings. Re: 2. How likely / what evidence is there that the ruling class have control or alternatively will be able to be driven around by using these methods? I assume you mean: what will prevent the ruling class from taking over groups? Anyone in a Sociocracy group can make proposals for how to prevent such tyranny. And the group can then decide what preventive measures may be worthwhile. Re: 3. How do you feel about collaborating with others who share your goal of ending corruption and what are some ways to foster trust and cooperation? I've generally been a loner, but I've always wanted to collaborate effectively and have some experience with trying to do that (in Intentional Communities, or with Quakers, or with 12 Step groups etc). I guess most people in the world realize there is extensive corruption in society and would like to see it reduced or ended, but don't know how. Many people are part of the corruption without realizing it, such as people working in corrupt corporations and organizations and in government positions. It's believable that there could be millions of secret agents of the government and/or of other ruling class organizations. Some percentage of those would be trained how to act like a normal person, so they may be hard to detect and weed out. But I think groups can make good progress even if part of some of the groups are spooks. I'll probably have time to discuss more before long. |
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 11, 2024 23:50:56 GMT
Col, 1. So, "This is in contrast to governance based on "power over", such as tyranny of the majority by win-lose democracy or tyranny of the minority by poorly defined consensus processes. Sociocracy is an approach to governance where everyone’s voice matters."
I am struggling to see how this would work in countries with 10's and 100's of millions of voices. Groups of 6 to 8 with 2 overlapping. I don't really understand how that mechanism scales to give 8 billion people a voice on a global level or even on a country level. Moses did set some rules out in the Bible that make some sense, but I can't remember what they were (or find), but they were some of Moses' more sensible ideas - if a tad fascist and I think Jesus kinda revised that whole thing. Found it: Exodus 18: 20 You are to teach them the statutes and instructions and make known to them the way they’re to go and the things they’re to do. 21 You are to look for capable men among the people, men who fear God, men of integrity who hate dishonest gain. You are to set these men over them as officials over thousands, hundreds,[c] fifties,[d] and tens.[e] 22 They are to judge the people at all times. Let them bring every major matter to you, but let them judge every minor matter. It will lighten your burden, and they’ll bear it with you. 23 If you do this,[f] and God so commands you, you will be able to stand the strain,[g] and all these people will also go to their homes in peace.”
SOFA say that sociocracy won't work to run a country, so it looks like I am not alone. 2 . That doesn't mention conventional tyranny by oligarchs, but maybe it makes sense for SoFA not to mention the ruling class, because we don't need to announce to the latter that we intend to reduce their power.
I think they are going to notice when their absolute power is challenged. I realise that I have not defined why I think that the ruling elite have power but I think we agree that they have overwhelming control of corporations, law, politics, religions, the military, intelligence and all media and that is just for starters. Occupy / anarchist, do you not think they are controlled opposition, controlled by the ruling class the very people you say that sociocracy will aim to disempower. They would be better example of why they won't work, because were it looks like it has been used it was already controlled - no even hi-jacked or co-opted 3. Collaborate with Quakers, what about with Kellogg's and the Cohens too. I am sorry for being sarcastic but it sounds as though you really don't agree that there is any kind of ruling elite with power and resources beyond our wildest dreams, or you do but don't understand that they are as in control as they are - they want you running around in these circles coming up with new ways to arrange the decks chairs on the Titanic while they have entirely different plans for that ship. True, we want to see the end of corruption and don't / won't / can't see how. My gut says non-participation and building a strong soul around virtue an honour. Then build out communities from there. So, in that respect it would be sociocracy, everyone would get to do their own thing with some agreed rules but mainly backed by a strong sense of morality and a good understanding of what is right. I actually think that is the best way to bring the rulers back in line, make them want to do the right thing in order that they are happy and honourable. It is a better way to live. Then evens with spook amongst us, we can thrive as individuals, families and communities and those who don't want to get on board can perish. I think that is the message that Jesus gave us, it is the message the Stoics give us and it is the message that Miles is now saying. |
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Post by lol on Feb 12, 2024 5:14:05 GMT
Jesus taught the apostles to attain Unity and Acts 15 shows how they and other disciples did attain Unity. And I wrote quite a bit about that at zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/acts-15-truth-unity . I believe Sociocracy was probably inspired by angels to show how modern society can attain Unity. I believe God is in control of the Universe. And God is Consciousness and Caring, which means Love. The Ruling Class are allowed to exist to help us advance. They are like predators in the animal kingdom. Predators help keep other animals fit and healthy. I believe the Ruling Class will not be of use much longer and the Bible seems to predict that, i.e. the End Times, which I believe will be the End of the Ruling Class, not of the common people. Although some Quakers like George Fox may have been members of the Satanic Ruling Class, and I don't feel certain about that, I don't think most Quakers are Satanic. In fact I think Quakers have improved on Christianity. They have a method of attaining Unity, which I think is close to the spirit of Acts 15. I think Unitarians probably have improved on Christianity as well. God is able to benefit humanity through those who do evil as well as through those who do good. Christianity was greatly harmed by the Romans when they formed the Catholic Church and maybe by the Greeks as well when they formed the Orthodox Church. Early Christianity was not like those. The Catholic Church adopted majority rule, instead of Unity. And they adopted the belief in Eternal Hell under Emperor Justinian of the Byzantine Empire when it was added to the Bible under his direction. That led to a lot of insanity and wars that occurred among Christians. Anyway, majority rule allowed corruption to grow in the Church and in governments. During the Renaissance, according to LaRouche {who doesn't seem to have been as bad as Miles suggested}, Cardinal Nicolas of Cusa, Italy, in the 1400s helped organize Catholics to promote science and republican governments or commonwealths for the common people. That seems to have been a progressive movement that occurred among Christians and maybe the beginning of Science and government of, by and for the people. There was a fable about seven brothers, or something like that, who were taught to be strong through Unity, by comparing themselves to a bundle of sticks. When sticks are in a bundle they're very hard to break, but individually they're easy to break, one by one. I heard about that fable when I was a kid. I think it's a good lesson. By the way, I think Jesus may have been an angel. I don't believe he's God. The shroud of Turin is pretty convincing as being proof of his resurrection from death after crucifixion. |
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 12, 2024 10:46:09 GMT
lol, all interesting and thought provoking stuff, are you saying that Christ is the foundation of sociocracy. If so, good, I like Christ a lot, I call his word Christianity, but if we need to re-brand to get it accepted then I suppose we could call it Sociocracy - though I am not sure that it is necessary and is probably counter productive. I would say what we need is a deep acting and living oneship with the word, and that is not just found in the bible but also in all wisdom and honourable action. What / who is God, now there is a question - one that I don't actually think can or needs to be answered.
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Post by lol on Feb 12, 2024 16:19:46 GMT
SoFA had an article about more effective friendships. What I recall of it is the suggestion to invite several acquaintances who are potential friends to join your friendship circle and then use Sociocratic methods to make the circle more enjoyable for all. The circle again should be 6 to 8 people. The same idea could be used to form similar kinds of circles. So I've been occasionally trying to figure out how to do that. So I think first there has to be a common interest.
It seems that Sociocracy is normally used for formal meetings, but I think it could be used in communications outside of meetings too. But the members of each circle should probably meet at the same time occasionally. Sociocracy seems to favor about monthly. But for more brief communications, I think the principles should be good more frequently in more mundane situations, such as friendships and activity groups etc.
On this forum we could easily have occasional meetings. I assume most members of the forum share interest in Ending Major Corruption. So hopefully we can get a few members to start and join a circle to make plans to End Corruption. Everyone is welcome to come up with a plan, and I'll try to do so before long, maybe tomorrow afternoon after court is over.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 13, 2024 10:23:36 GMT
I think most members share a desire to bathe in the knowing smugness of Miles Mathis. I don't think there are any independent thinkers with the courage to state their own views in contradiction of Miles here. So, we might as well just ask for Miles to proclaim "the truth as handed to him by his muses" (does that sound anything like some bloke who went up a hill, then he can write it in a million, waffling papers - wait that sounds like the Old Testament too.
Good luck in court. As you can probably tell, I have woken up in a foul temper this morning and it is getting worse.
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lol
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Post by lol on Feb 13, 2024 14:37:06 GMT
Michael, I'd still like to have the link to that forum so I can do the invite. I think I'm diplomatic enough to avoid disaster (this time).
I read most of your other thread about getting kicked out. Since I guess they don't have alternative threads, I can sort of understand why they chose to expel you, but I think it's unwise. They could have a thread for Off-Topic, or something like that to send such posts to, I imagine.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 13, 2024 16:03:21 GMT
mathisianhaven.wordpress.com
They didn't choose to expel me because I was posting off topic, Miles chose to (covertly) expel me because he spat the dummy. As you can see I have lost all respect for the giant baby.
I no longer have patience for weak ego's needing massaged.
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Post by erwin on Feb 13, 2024 19:15:09 GMT
mathisianhaven.wordpress.com They didn't choose to expel me because I was posting off topic, Miles chose to (covertly) expel me because he spat the dummy. As you can see I have lost all respect for the giant baby. I no longer have patience for weak ego's needing massaged. Putting some more fuel on the fire. That makes a 180 degree turn in a day's time, in the way you talk about the subject of this forum. Where you so wrong before, or are you so wrong now? It has to be one or the other.. |
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Post by lol on Feb 14, 2024 2:41:36 GMT
For this thread, Sociocracy would probably use NVC (nonviolent communication) at this point to deal with our EMOTIONS. NVC might say something like Michael seems upset with Miles for expelling him from the other forum. And Erwin seems puzzled that Michael has gone from pro- to anti-Miles so quickly. Right? PS, I don't know what Michael meant by "spat the dummy", but it may not be important enough to explain. I don't know. {Later that day:} I put a short comment over there now at mathisianhaven.wordpress.com/2023/10/13/current-events-discussion-thread/comment-page-8/#comment-2900. I'm hoping that will have been worthwhile. |
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